31 replies to this topic

[m.oreilly]

you all are just stupendous. what wonderful people. i am blessed to know you. wow!

[banj0]

m.oreilly, on Dec 27 2007, 12:47 AM, said:

you all are just stupendous. what wonderful people. i am blessed to know you. wow!

MO, I'm sure I speak for dozens of people across the globe when I say that the privilege is ours.

[TheBearLT]

Scuba, on Dec 27 2007, 06:27 AM, said:

...eing able to sit around and reflect on the year gone by, and making wishful plans for the future to come. The holidays just remind us to stop and take a look around at what we really have, to be kind to our fellow man and to be cheerful; even if we do only do it onc....

Also Agreed nice one

banj0, on Dec 27 2007, 06:09 AM, said:

...know how anyone with a heart could ever begrudge that. Atheists and Believers are all writing the same story, they just use different phrasi...

Yep.. This is truly Inspiring +1

talker, on Dec 27 2007, 01:49 AM, said:

.....ildren the difference in the facts and fantasies of life. If we wish to make the difference between Santa Claus and Jesus a boxing match, then most assuredly we can. However, I believe my children and most others are/will be able to evaluate the difference AFT....

Again nice opinion Talker.. 5/5..
I was thinking pretty much the same way, and No personal Messaging should be involved, you made it 100 percent clear for Everyone.




And I hope you all had A nice Christmas

[David_Heavey]

banj0, on Dec 27 2007, 04:09 AM, said:

Or how lucky we are to watch a kid opening a gift

Never a truer word has been spoken. I was never a Christmas kind of guy. I'm afraid I'm just not religious at all. But when I saw my (almost) 2 year old open her first gift this Christmas it really blew me away. I never felt such a rush of feelings at once. I was delighted when I saw her smile when she saw her doll but that was quickly overcome by anger when I saw her body cast (she can't stand or walk for another two month) and then overcome by awe as she sat there laughing in her cast as if nothing was wrong. That awe and delight far outweighed the anger. Children are so helpless but also much stronger than we can ever imagine. I'll never forget that rush of feelings I got. And I owe it all to Santa and Jesus. They're both good guys in my book. If their names help people of this world (if they exist or not) then long live their names.

Bless you all.

[hog]

Beautiful, beautiful words everyone.

About the Jesus thing, I respect everyone's faith and I understand how it's important for those people to believe in the teachings of their religion. I personnally consider myself an atheist (even though I have done my communion and confirmation, I've now stepped away from christianism) because I feel I don't need that anymore in my life. Of course, religions have an importance in teaching good values and everything and that's why I think they have an importance.

Jesus is not better or worse than Santa, they just shouln't even be connected. Some people say Christmas is becoming to be only about presents and materialism and that religion and Jesus are getting forgotten. Some people here in Quebec even argue that Christmas trees shouldn't appear in public areas and governemtal buildings because it's a religious symbol. BS. Can someone explain to me what is the link between a baby born in barn in Israel and a tree that grows hundreds of kilometers to the north, decorated with shiny things? For me (and for many others I'm sure) Christmas has nothing to do with religion, and neither has it anything to do with materialism and capitalism. Christmas is a time to get together as a family and/or with friends to share and have fun. Yes, people spend a lot of money during the holidays, but all those gifts are meant to be to show how much we appreciate, love and care for each other.



BTW, I've been one hell of a lucky guy this year: my mom bought a Sharp Aquos 37" 720p for my Xbox 360 and my brother's Wii It's a good jump from our 19" dating from the 80s on which I couldn't read my lap times in Forza Also got an extra 360 controller and a Play and Charge kit (may those batteries go to hell!) and Mass Effect. Can't wait to play that game: my dad took the last copy there was in French in case I wanted it in French, but I want the original version in English since there's a lot of text and voice acting I don't want to take the chance, so he has to go change it. Also got a dictionnary for the PC which I'm reaaaally happy of. This might seem weird to be so excited about a dictionnary but I'm studying linguistics and I love learning new things about languages and it'll also come in handy for work at University.

Nice monitor Scuba, you'll love it. Do you have a DVI cable? It looks even better with it. I have an LG 20" 2000:1 5ms 1680x1050. Your 2ms is overkill lol. Great for gaming.

[TheBearLT]

To Hog..:

Well.. Actually Christmas is all about Jesus, Personally i Think, that People who not believes, should not Celebrate Christmas, because there would be no point, and celebrate New Year only.. , thats the way lots of people does, Christians celebrates Christmas, Jews "Hanuka"(nov/dec), others.. New Year.. in this nice Winter month.. December
You noticing "The Circle Of Perfection" ?

Only Three days left for a Great "Boom" , the magic is not over.. yet..

Cheers,

Edited by TheBearLT, 27 December 2007 - 11:27 PM.

[Nvyseal]

TheBearLT, on Dec 27 2007, 03:25 PM, said:

Personally i Think, that People who not believes, should not Celebrate Christmas, because there would be no point...

Well bear, i disagree. I am of Christian faith, and celebrate Christmas, but i do have a lot of friends who are atheist. I just wouldn't feel right not including them in on such a wonderful holiday. Call it the spirit of Christmas, or spirit of giving, or the spirit of taking time out and being thankful for what you have and thankful for the friends you have. I think everyone can celebrate that, and what better day to do that- but on Christmas Day

[hog]

Nvyseal, on Dec 27 2007, 07:35 PM, said:

Well bear, i disagree. I am of Christian faith, and celebrate Christmas, but i do have a lot of friends who are atheist. I just wouldn't feel right not including them in on such a wonderful holiday. Call it the spirit of Christmas, or spirit of giving, or the spirit of taking time out and being thankful for what you have and thankful for the friends you have. I think everyone can celebrate that, and what better day to do that- but on Christmas Day

Thanks Navy, exactly what I meant. Though I understand your point Bear, it's just that traditionnally my family doesn't celebrate New Year all that much, that's why we do it on Christmas day. It's a date that previously had a religious meaning but for me it has only evolved in becoming a laic celebration that happens to on the same date as the religious celebration, only because of tradition and as Navy said, because we can also include Christians (most of my family in fact) in the same holiday.

[David_Heavey]

Nvyseal, on Dec 28 2007, 12:35 AM, said:

Well bear, i disagree.

I agree ;-)

[talker]

The sharing of faith is how someone hears and accepts a belief system. Christianity, as with other beliefs, is spread by sharing. Inviting someone who is not a Christian to a Christmas get together is one way of giving away the faith. Usually, sometime during the get together, the "reason for the season" will come up in the conversation. At that point, the faith is shared and who can say that the nonbeliever may become a believer. I invite many to come to Church and NEVER ask any of them if they are Christians or anything else for that matter. I merely invite them to come, hear, and take part in the service. And you must remember, regardless of what you believe, there was a time when you were a nonbeliever...as were we all. As for those that say that they believe in nothing, that is not exactly accurate. Nothing is something in the same way that "0" is a number...talker.

[Scuba]

talker, on Dec 28 2007, 09:08 PM, said:

As for those that say that they believe in nothing, that is not exactly accurate. Nothing is something in the same way that "0" is a number

Wow. I dont even know what to say. It seams every time you post something it makes me think ; thank you for this!!!

Man I love this site

[banj0]

This does seem to be one of the only sites where we can discuss things like religion, politics, current news, etc., with no fear of the thread turning vitriolic and no worry that the conversation will be ruined by a-holes. The members here rock and the admins/mods roll.

[TheBearLT]

talker, on Dec 29 2007, 05:08 AM, said:

The sharing of faith is how someone hears and accepts a belief system. Christianity, as with other beliefs, is spread by sharing. Inviting someone who is not a Christian to a Christmas get together is one way of giving away the faith. Usually, sometime during the get together, the "reason for the season" will come up in the conversation. At that point, the faith is shared and who can say that the nonbeliever may become a believer. I invite many to come to Church and NEVER ask any of them if they are Christians or anything else for that matter. I merely invite them to come, hear, and take part in the service. And you must remember, regardless of what you believe, there was a time when you were a nonbeliever...as were we all. As for those that say that they believe in nothing, that is not exactly accurate. Nothing is something in the same way that "0" is a number...talker. :g:

But Talker, do you really Believe that you can make from 45 years old Atheist, 45 years old Christian.. ?

Well yes, you can "make" someone from non-believer to Believer if He is 15-20 years old..
Developed man, who whole Hes life thought, and Lived in Non-Religious way, Psychologically can't become a believer, without Proving it.. Because in the Limits of Fresh Mind, you can't prove anything what Evangelie says/states.

You must believe in Religion not by Mind, but by soul, and an "Old" Atheist, just would not be able to accept it.. to accept what Hes Subconsciousness was rejecting Whole life.

Well you got my point.. :)

^_^ Cheers

[talker]

TheBearLT, on Dec 29 2007, 05:28 AM, said:

But Talker, do you really Believe that you can make from 45 years old Atheist, 45 years old Christian.. ?

Well yes, you can "make" someone from non-believer to Believer if He is 15-20 years old..
Developed man, who whole Hes life thought, and Lived in Non-Religious way, Psychologically can't become a believer, without Proving it.. Because in the Limits of Fresh Mind, you can't prove anything what Evangelie says/states.

You must believe in Religion not by Mind, but by soul, and an "Old" Atheist, just would not be able to accept it.. to accept what Hes Subconsciousness was rejecting Whole life.

Well you got my point..

Cheers

Hi Bear,
Yes, you are correct. I (nor anyone else) can "make" somebody into something that they don't want to be. The person may give into the pressure of the "making' and act as though they have been "converted" but it is just that, an act. Totalitarian governments have often had subjects that, on the surface, voiced support for the regime but from within they had no part of it. To accept a spiritual/religious belief system the consideration needs to be moved about 12" down from the head to the heart. Spiritual/reilgious beliefs are held in the heart and not the head. The head requires proof of something. A tangible something that verifies and justifies the consideration. However, the heart can accept and hold the intangible. It is called faith. As an example, many believe in the Biblical story of Noah's Ark and the Flood that consumed the entire world. In order to accept this, it must be held in the heart and accepted without proof. That is called faith. On Mount Ararat in Turkey there is the possiblity, according to some, that the Ark is there. If this is true, the finding of the Ark would more or less "prove" the story of the Flood and the Ark. Would more believe and suddenly a mass of people would become Jewish or Christian? I think not. This tangible "proof" would destroy the mystery that is called faith. The belief would move from the heart to the head. The head has no feeling. It is cold and logical. All the magic, glory, and mystery of the faith would be lost. They would then believe without feeling. Accepting a belief system, and deeply so with Christianity, is a matter of heart and not head. It is a matter of belief in the unseen by faith not believing because of tangible proof. And as far as age being a factor, at least in Christianity, Jesus said we must all believe as little children. Open to the awe and mystery of what we have found without worry about the proof. The child believes because he believes without concern as to why...he just believes...talker.